F1 unglaublich

[Katana]

Es ist nicht zu fassen, ich hab Briatore viel zu getraut aber das schlägt doch alles.

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/formel1/0,1 ... 06,00.html

Wo gibts denn sowas, und dann erst mal den Fahrer als Lügner und sonst was beschimpfen. 8o 8o 8o

[Ehemalier]

Ach, der Flavio:D
Wer weiß, was da sonst noch alles so abläuft.
Die Piquets brauchen jetzt gute Leibwächter schätz ich mal. Ausm Renngeschäft sind die jetzt wohl alle raus. Da hätte der kurze wohl seinerzeit besser abgelehnt.

[Killa]

ich hab gut gelacht als das eben in den nachrichten kam... der flavio das alte schlitzohr... herrlich

der würde für nen GP sieg auch seine mutter verkaufen.....


ach ja.... ich denk ma alonso bekommt den sieg ab erkannt..... wer wurde damals zweiter.... rosberg? schöner erster sieg nico!

[fastfuture]

Stellt euch jetzt einmal vor die Konstellation zwischen Massa und Hamilton wäre in dem Rennen so gewesen, dass Massa die WM so gewonnen hätte.

Dann würde Alonso der Sieg niemals aberkannt werden und keiner hätte etwas gehört.

[Katana]

Wie kommst du denn auf so ne Behauptung???????
Das ist doch lächerlich, wenn bewiesen ist das es Betrug war wäre es Massa genau so ergangen.
Ständig wird behauptet das Ferrari nie ne Strafe bekommen würde.
Erinnert euch mal an die Zeiten von Schumacher, wollt ihr etwa behaupten das da nie Strafen ausgesprochen wurden?

Schaut mal z.b. hier nach.

http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article8 ... korde.html

[Rabbitracer]

versteh ich auch nicht ganz.........
wenn der zu einem unfall gezwungen werden sollte oder hat s sogar gemacht....

dann ist das doch anstiftung zur körperverletzung wobei noch der tod in kauf genommen wird........

und würde doch ein kapital verbrechen darstellen.nicht nur in deutschland.

eigentlich würde man verhaftet.......

aber passiert doch gar nix........

ralf

[Kimster]

[quote]Original von Rabbitracer
versteh ich auch nicht ganz.........
wenn der zu einem unfall gezwungen werden sollte oder hat s sogar gemacht....

dann ist das doch anstiftung zur körperverletzung wobei noch der tod in kauf genommen wird........

und würde doch ein kapital verbrechen darstellen.nicht nur in deutschland.

eigentlich würde man verhaftet.......

aber passiert doch gar nix........

ralf[/quote]

Du traust einem F1-Fahrer nicht zu, einen Unfall so zu gestalten, dass nix passiert?

Hast du den Crash gesehen? Piquet hat ausgangs einer langsamen Kurve den Wagen rückwärts in die Wand gesetzt. Die Kurve wurde vorher ausgesucht, da gabs nämlich keinen Kran zum wegheben. So war die Chance auf ein SC auch entsprechend groß.

Himmelherrgott. Komm mal runter.

Von Speed:

[Quote]
The FIA waited a month before grilling members of the Renault team at Spa over the Singapore affair, we can now confirm.

As we have previously suggested the FIA wanted to spring the investigation on the team as a surprise. We now know that Nelson Piquet Jr formally gave his evidence to the FIA as long ago as Thursday July 30, several days after Nelson Piquet Sr. had first approached the FIA with information about his son’s role in Singapore.

The interview with the younger Piquet was conducted in Paris in the presence of investigators from the Quest concern, an FIA lawyer, and FIA stewards’ chairman Alan Donnelly. This was four days before Piquet released a statement saying the team had sacked him.

The investigation thus began during the summer break, when both the FIA and Renault were also preparing for the separate hearing into the Hungarian pit stop saga.

Indeed because of the doubts over the participation of Renault in the European GP in Valencia the FIA apparently decided to wait a further week, and conduct its interviews with team members at Spa.

This questioning took place in the presence of Quest, the FIA’s legal rep and as we have previously reported, the three Belgian GP stewards, namely Sweden’s Lars Osterlind, Greece’s Vassilis Despotopoulos and local representative Yves Bacquelaine. The first two are also World Motor Sport Council members.

Subsequent to those interviews Briatore and Symonds have reportedly submitted written statements to the FIA. According to extracts quoted on autosport.com - the authority on Formula One, F1, MotoGP, WRC, IRL, GP2, F2, A1GP, Le Mans, NASCAR and more, Briatore said he is "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.”

He also reportedly acknowledged that the meeting took place: "I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in
a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."

Autosport.com reports Symonds is as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."

If those quotes are accurate we are in the extraordinary situation of it being Piquet’s word against those of his two-team bosses as to what was discussed or agreed in that meeting.

However the FIA also has data from the race that would pinpoint any unusual throttle or steering movements. There are also radio recordings during which Piquet repeatedly asks what lap he was on. Apparently checks with previous events indicate that this was not his normal behavior during a race.

Briatore’s comment about Piquet being in a ‘fragile state of mind’ is also intriguing. It leaves open the possibility for the World Motor Sport Council to enquire further as to what that entailed, and ask just why the team would allow a driver to take part in a race in such circumstances, especially given his alleged suggestion about creating a safety car period.

The other key question could be to the effect that if Piquet had come up with the idea of crashing and then pursued it without the support of the team management why no action was subsequently taken by the team. Instead he was later re-signed for a further season.
[/Quote]


FIA Anhörung
[Quote]
Piquet’s Allegations


• he was asked by Briatore and team technical director Pat Symonds “to deliberately crash my car” in Singapore to benefit Alonso • Symonds, “in the presence of Mr. Briatore, asked me if I would be willing to sacrifice my race for the team by ‘causing a safety car’ “
• he “agreed to this proposal and caused my car to hit a wall and crash during lap 13/14 of the race;” • that after meeting with Briatore and Symonds, the latter “took me aside to a quiet corner and, using a map, pointed me to the exact corner of the track where I should crash,” because “it did not have any cranes that would allow a damaged car to be swiftly lifted off the track, nor did it have any side entrances to the track” which would allow a damaged car to be rolled off the track. Crashing where Symonds indicated “would thus necessitate the deployment of a safety car.”
• Symonds told Piquet that the strategy to be employed for Alonso, who would start 15th, would have him very light on fuel, and that Alonso would thus pit before the Piquet crash while others would not, allowing Alonso to gain track position
• he was in a “very fragile and emotional state of mind” because of “intense stress due to the fact that Mr. Briatore had refused” to tell him whether or not he would be retained in 2009, and “repeatedly put pressure on me” to prolong an option that precluded him talking to other teams
• that he agreed to crash because he thought it would help him keep his drive, though no promises were made • he repeatedly asked the team to confirm the lap he was on, “which I would not normally do”
• after the race, “Mr. Briatore discreetly said ‘thank you’ after the end of the race” but the deliberate crash was not discussed with him by anyone after the initial meeting and agreement.

On August 17th, Piquet provided the FIA with a supplemental statement, to summarize the points made in the course of a second interview held in London, during which he reviewed “preliminary telemetry data” which the FIA Technical Department had obtained from the Renault team.

In the statement, Piquet explained how he had crashed. “After ensuring I was on the designated lap of the race, I deliberately lost control of my car” on the exit to turn 17, the second part of a right-left chicane. “I did this by pressing hard and early on the throttle. As I felt the back end of the car drifting out, I continued to press hard on the throttle, in the knowledge that this would lead to my car making heavy contact with the concrete wall....”

Having reviewed the telemetry, Piquet stated that the data “clearly demonstrates that I pressed significantly harder and earlier on the throttle on the exit to turn 17 on the lap in question than on previous laps. Once the back end of the car had begun to drift out, the only way of recovering control of the car and avoiding contact...would have been to back off on the throttle. However, I did not back off the throttle to any material extent. Rather, I pressed hard on the throttle beyond the moment at which the back end started to drift out and, indeed, right up to and beyond the point of impact with the concrete wall. Again, the fact that I did not back off the throttle is apparent from the (standard data recorder) telemetry readings of the incident.”
In both statements, Piquet acknowledged that he had “a duty...to ensure the fairness and legitimacy” of the F1 championship.

The Inquiry in Belgium

From the outset, the FIA had involved the investigative firm Quest, and by the time of Piquet’s second statement, at least, had also involved the law firm of Sidley Austin LLP. Both companies had representatives present at Quest’s London offices when Piquet was interviewed, and again when the stewards of the Belgian GP (Lars Osterlind, Vassilis Despotopoulos and Yves Bacquelaine) were charged with investigating the Piquet allegations, and interviewing a number of people from the Renault team two week later. (Osterlind and Despotopoulos are members of the World Motor Sport Council, which will ultimately determine guilt of innocence.) In addition, Herbie Blash, the FIA observer was present in Belgium.

The inquiry was conducted over August 27th and 28th, and on the 28th, the stewards received a hard disc said to contain the team’s entire data file (except car data) from the Singapore Grand Prix. Briatore provided additional information and documents.

The stewards “were reminded” that, in 2008, deployment of the safety car resulted in the pits being closed until the field was aligned properly behind the safety car, and that over the 14 races preceding Singapore, Alonso and Piquet had respectively scored just 18 and 13 driver point, and Renault was tied for fourth place with Toyota in the constructors’ championship.
The stewards also had reference to video from the Singapore event, and to printouts from the Renault telemetry, provided by the FIA technical department. The stewards concluded that the telemetry supported Piquet’s version of what he had done to cause the accident. The FIA techies affirmed that his actions were “unusual for the particular situation.”

Also made available to the stewards was the telemetry printout from Alonso’s car, illustrating when he had also experienced wheelspin at turn 17 during the race. The data traces showed him easing off the throttle, the opposite of what Piquet had done on lap 14.
At the time of the Belgian interviews, the stewards did not have access to the transcript of the Renault radio transmissions (the FIA had not retained their recording), but the team subsequently provided the recording and the stewards reviewed them before making their report to the FIA.

Alonso was interviewed first, but merely confirmed that his reaction to wheelspin in turn 17 was conventional.
Next up was Symonds, and as the partial transcript in the stewards report showed, he proved notably shy in critical areas:

FIA adviser: (With respect to the Singapore meeting involving Briatore, Symonds and Piquet) In your own words, Mr. Symonds, what do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jr. at that meeting? This is shortly before the race.
Symonds: I don’t really remember
FIA adviser: You don’t remember?
Symonds: No
FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jr. says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?
Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That’s all I’d really like to say.
FIA adviser: Mr. Symonds, were you aware that there was going to be a crash at Lap 14?
Symonds: I don’t want to answer that question. Later, there was this exchange.
FIA adviser: There is just one thing that I ought to ask you, and put it to you so you can think about it, at least. Mr. Piquet Jr. says that having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore, you then met with him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that?
Symonds: I won’t answer. Rather not answer that. I don’t recall it, but it sounds like Nelson’s talked a lot more about it.
FIA adviser: Mr. Piquet Jr. also says that at that meeting, you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment, and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.
Symonds: I don’t...I don’t want to answer that question.
Still later, the questioning of Symonds concluded with the FIA adviser asking whether Symonds or Briatore had done most of the talking during the meeting involving them and Piquet.
FIA adviser: Because, just to be absolutely clear here, what Nelson Piquet Jr. has said is that at that meeting it was you that asked him to have the crash deliberately.

The FiA technical department provided the Belgian GP stewards with annotated telemetry traces from Piquet’s Singapore accident, and other data. Typical, and damning, is the section shown here. This shows Piquet’s use of throttle and wheelspin up to and through the accident. The throttle trace shows early application of full throttle on the exit of turn 17 to induce wheelspin, then a probably instinctive throttle lift in reaction to the induced power oversteer (at ‘A’), and finally an immediate return to full throttle to increase the oversteer to, through and beyond the point of impact (at ‘B’). Comparison traces from earlier laps show that Piquet indeed applied more throttle, and sooner, on exiting turn 17 to induce the spin.

Symonds: I can’t answer you.
FIA adviser: Can I say that if, Mr. Symonds, you’d been put in the position where you were made to ask Mr. Piquet Jr. to crash, it’s much better. It would be much better for you in the long term to tell these stewards, to hear that today.
Symonds: I fully understand that.
FIA adviser: Yes.
Symonds: I have no intention of lying to you. I have not lied to you, but I have reserved my position just a little.
FIA adviser: And you’re aware that the stewards may draw conclusions from your unwillingness to assist them in relation to what went on in that meeting?
Symonds: I would expect them to. I would absolutely expect that.
FIA adviser: I think I haven’t got any further questions.
Symonds was also questioned about the telemetry printout from Alonso’s wheelspin incident and from Piquet’s car, copies of which was shown to him.
FIA adviser: I think you’ll anticipate what I’m going to ask you here.
Symonds: I think I will.
FIA adviser: There’s quite.... There’s a more significant wheelspin recorded here (in Piquet’s traces than Alonso had experienced earlier in the race). You’ll see what has been marked by the (FIA) technical department as a rapid increase in throttle pedal (application).
Symonds: Mmm hmm.
FIA adviser: There, is on the throttle. There’s a slight releasing of the throttle as the wheels start to spin, but when the (wheel)spin is at its greatest, there appears to be a reapplication of the throttle at almost 100 percent.
Symonds: Yes.
FIA adviser: I put it to you, Mr. Symonds, that that’s a very unusual piece of telemetry that would suggest that this may have been a deliberate crash.
Symonds: I would agree it’s unusual. FIA adviser: Would it suggest to you a deliberate crash?
Symonds: I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a deliberate crash, so I.... It’s very unusual data.
FIA adviser: Counter-intuitive for a driver to put his foot full on the throttle when he’s in a deep (wheel)spin like that, Mr. Symonds?
Symonds: It is. yes, when he has that much wheelspin, it’s counter-intuitive.

Largely on the basis of Symonds’ failure to answer key questions, the stewards concluded that the meeting in Briatore’s office took place, that a deliberate crash was discussed, and that afterward, Symonds had indicated to Piquet where to have his ‘accident’ in order to ensure that the safety car would be deployed. The stewards noted in their report that, “had there been no substance to the allegations made by (Piquet) and put to Mr. Symonds, it would have been straightforward for Mr. Symonds to deny them.”

When interviewed on the 27th, Symonds said he might have additional information for the stewards subsequently, including responses to the questions he’d declined to answer. Called in again the follow day, however, he again declined to answer the questions.
[/Quote]

[Kimster]

Und damit das ganze nicht so ernst rüberkommt: Piquet hat in seiner ersten F1 Saison 17 Unfälle bei den Rennen/Qualis etc. pp gehabt. Der wusste wie er sich nicht weh tut.

[Katana]

Ich denke auch das der schon genau wusste wo und wie er das am besten macht ohne sich weh zu tun.

Aber wenn ich mir überlege was das für ein Geschrei war als Ferrari die damals noch legale Teamorder befohlen hatte.

Und wer war einer der da am lautesten geschrien hatte?

Richtig, der gute Briatore.

Und jetzt bringt der so nen Klops, Teamorder auf einem ganz anderen Niveau. :rolleyes:

[monster]

Tja, manche Sprüche haben etwas wahres an sich....

wie man in den Wald hinein ruft, so schallt es heraus.

Irgendwie war es klar, dass Briatore sich irgendwann, irgendwie etwas lappt. Aber jetzt merkt er auch, dass nicht alles so geht, wie er sich das vorstellt.

Ich gönne es ihm, für mich ist er ein aufgeblassener Angeber und peinlich hinzu. Aber dies nur meine persönliche Meinung.

Nur schade für Piquet, dass er sich auf so was eingelassen hat, somit hat sich die F1 für ihn wohl erst recht erledigt. Es gehören immer zwei dazu, einer der "zwingt" und einer, der sich "zwingen" läßt.

Andrea